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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the Bully AB purists to really excel in dogsport (note: I am a hybrid person myself...I'm just speculating here):

Compact - not sloppy or exagerated in anyway, no-excess bulk, super straight, notice the thickness of the rear





Keep in mind this is not a hybrid dog...she's just a more 'compact' bully.

A bully with a build like this is what it would take when it comes to agility, stamina, control. That is assuming it has the necessary drives to work. These are just my opinions. I also gotta say I love the liver nose hehe :wink:
 

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ya right.

first off, too much underbite.

second, too thick. no stamina to work. unless it is less than 70lbs. These thick dogs have low tolerances.

I have to admit I love the looks of them, but dreaming is one thing and reality is another.

However, I do know of one that is somewhat similar and has a bravet in French Ring. He is an oddity though and with his very short muzzle, I cannot feel much on my suit. Probalby the best Johnson dog I have ever seen. He is about 67-70lbs. Small and thick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Do you think a dog like this would do well in sch if it had the drive for it? I'm thinking for it's weight class it'd do amazing in WP as well.


Also, what do you think of Chad's RB's. I know he is strictly training them in french ring, as well as other people who are part of his breeding program. They are smaller dogs but bred for drive.

Vids:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289685799

Photo:






compact + crazy lil buggers
 

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I don't know anything about it but it is a beautiful dog
 

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Well first off i am happy to see a bull Ab in such good shape! hats off to them!
I do know how hard it is with a Ab with a big undershot, her bite is fine but she nevers hits or grips as hard as my boys , who dop not have such a excessive undershot.

Like her structure but for working... i am not sure... love to see it though! 8)
Hey Evan hows my maddie doing?
 

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Re: ya right.

PeterC said:
first off, too much underbite.

second, too thick. no stamina to work. unless it is less than 70lbs. These thick dogs have low tolerances.

I have to admit I love the looks of them, but dreaming is one thing and reality is another.
I agree on the underbite thing..wee bit too much..

I have a short thick Johnson Bully with all kinds of stamina for work..weighing right at 110 lbs..on the stamina side of things my dog climbs pine trees without missing a beat on a daily basis and works out on a 6 acre motorcross track...so I dont agree with the stamina stuff..

Low tolerance never had that problem either..and more drive in him than you can shake a stick at litterly.

Sooo dont let the thickness or the shortness fool U...

e
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Maddie, RE, etc

Tia said:
Hey Evan hows my maddie doing?
She's doing awesome! I have her seperated + isolated for the time being ( I go visit her in her room every couple hrs) and she is recovering very well! The doc said she was very close to having full blown pyometra so we operated just in time before risking any complications!

She is also on cartrophen now for her joints, an expensive but amazing product that's injected once a week for a month to build up the levels, then once every 3 months afterwards. She just cost me a good 2grand this month but it is worth it to see her in such good shape :D She's my baby gurl and I couldn't bare to see her anyway but healthy and she's already looking awesome now and only going to be getting better now that she's on the cartrophen. :D
 

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redbull said:
Do you think a dog like this would do well in sch if it had the drive for it? I'm thinking for it's weight class it'd do amazing in WP as well.


Also, what do you think of Chad's RB's. I know he is strictly training them in french ring, as well as other people who are part of his breeding program. They are smaller dogs but bred for drive.

Vids:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289685799

Photo:






compact + crazy lil buggers
so u have located gargoyle bullies...omen has been around for awhile...i am checkin out of this one..

e
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hehe why what's up? I've known of them too for a while but have never asked other people besides RB people about them. What do you think of these dogs? Breed-wise they are still in development and are only registered under their own registry, but work-wise I heard they are awesome for being bullies. RB people have only been working them in FR.

I've heard rumours, but that's like anyone and everyone....people like to spread or makeup rumours to discredit breeding programs and/or other types of alternative bulldogs, but I really like these bullies.
 

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Yeah, Erica, I want to know whats up too. I thought that Gargoyles were doing good, but what the hell do I know, lol.

I think those dogs look great, I would be worried about the heat with them though.
 

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redbull said:
Do you think a dog like this would do well in sch if it had the drive for it? I'm thinking for it's weight class it'd do amazing in WP as well.


Also, what do you think of Chad's RB's. I know he is strictly training them in french ring, as well as other people who are part of his breeding program. They are smaller dogs but bred for drive.

Vids:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289685799

Photo:






compact + crazy lil buggers
I typically am not attracted to these type dogs, but something about this one draws me in...it may be his coloring, but he looks stunning to me!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Peter: .Would it be possible to trial with an RB in ring? If so would it need to be registered as a "blue" dog? There is a registry for them, the RBKC but I'm not sure if the NARA would recognize this. I knew you liked these dogs too so thought you might know since you train in ring.
 

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Wow! That dog can like fly!! :shock: He looks like he can do some pretty amazing things.

I have one question though...and this is coming from a person who has zero knowledge of whatever kind of training that is taking place in those pictures (see I don't even know what it's called :lol:), so I'm not judging or criticizing, just getting information...but what is that stick used for in the last picture?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bogart said:
...but what is that stick used for in the last picture?
Agitation / distraction during bite work and to initiate the dog into attack mode (to the dog it would appear that the decoy is about to attack the handler as well). For a protection dog, you do not want it to let go hopefully until you tell it to. The longer it can grip the better. Using clatter-sticks, beanpoles, etc help train the dog to not only ignore anything that may distract it from doing it's job, but push the dog's drive further during a bite. Some are used to make noise, some are used to strike the dog, but don't take offence, it is not done in such a way to injure it. The decoy/helper has strict rules and must be properly trained to follow them.
 

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redbull.

Yes, ANY dog can get a title. french ring is NOT a malinois sport. It is for ANY dog with the drive and mental capability (and mental endurance - this is where most bulldogs fail). It will be a blue dog.
I love those Renaissance dogs too. I love the looks. However, I cannot comment since I have never worked them. I have seen too many dogs on the net that look fantastic but when I work them, are hopeless. Simply put, I cannot comment on any of the RB dogs.

However, one thing is clear. if you think you can compete against a well bred malinois, you are dreaming.

Secondly, I don't see or have seen ANY of those dogs doing ANY high level OB. Listen. I can get my yorky to bite like hell. I could get my ex johnson dog (sold) to look like a MONSTER on the net. He made most ABs look like sqirts. OB is major major stress and pressure on a dog. Hardness and drive is a VERY small part of training in French ring. Most shepards cannot do it. It is a VERY hard sport........a trainer's sport.

Biting a sleeve or doing leg sleeve work tells me virtually nothing. Now, the quality of the bite and countering........ Control is everything. Getting a dog to bite is easy, if it has drive. control is hard and tells me about the QUALITY of the training and the mental toughness of the dog.

However, i do like there little bulldogs. They seem smaller with better stamina. I love the pac man head. it does compensate for some of the underbite.

dude, you want to play, get the right equipment. Seriously. You know where they are. Oden, Bronx, Q, Turbo, Nikko, Predator, Miko, hammer. You want these names plastered on both sides of the pedigree, all over the place, especially on the last two generations. You know, it is like this..........I may fail 100 times in a trial because my dog is too hard and will not "out" or he flips me the bird, BUT I am pretty sure he is never going to chicken out no matter what. GO and see those dogs, I listed. You cannot understand until you see them, yourself with your own eyes, preferably with your trainer.

My best advice is to JOIN a club first and go with your training director. Don't do it on your own. That is what a good club is for. Besides, REALLY it is not YOUR dog. It becomes the club's dog. I hope that makes sense.
 

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erica

your quote "I have a short thick Johnson Bully with all kinds of stamina for work..weighing right at 110 lbs..on the stamina side of things my dog climbs pine trees without missing a beat on a daily basis and works out on a 6 acre motorcross track...so I dont agree with the stamina stuff.. "

don't get me wrong. I love big thick dogs. Love them. I just have not seen one work well. I have seen a few.

What bloodlines are you playing with? As yet, I have not seen ANY 110lb dog that did not have issues in California summer heat.
I suppose it is all relative and kind of work.

A 110lb dog doing bitework in the sun in Mid July will have major issues.

Post your pics of your boy. I would love to see big doggies. Thx.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Do you own any malinois as well? I think I read somewhere that you have some longer haired dogs and it made me think malinois since you are a ring trainer. I don't plan on getting any more dogs (that I would work) until after I join a club because it is not fun to waste time one a dog that's not cut out for it, and I have enough pets as is. I've been meaning to check out more standard dogs as well.

I've read in some places that there might be two types of tracking implemented into schutzhund now too, a type that is for people who do not really want to pursue tracking so much, but have to do it as it is a necessary part of sch. I would rather spend the extra time on OB if I can because bulldogs have such thick heads.

But yeah it's true, I have to join the club first before making any real decisions. The boy I have now may be good enough to work, and thinking about ring at this stage is premature, but it would be nice to train in both. It would be nice to focus on legs + sleeve though and switch back and forth right from the start of his training. I'll have to see what's best since I am a noob to it all...although I could probably do some ring training even if my goals did not include trialing him for brevet. Would be fun and good for the dog to switch it up now and again.
 

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redbull said:
Agitation / distraction during bite work and to initiate the dog into attack mode (to the dog it would appear that the decoy is about to attack the handler as well). For a protection dog, you do not want it to let go hopefully until you tell it to. The longer it can grip the better. Using clatter-sticks, beanpoles, etc help train the dog to not only ignore anything that may distract it from doing it's job, but push the dog's drive further during a bite. Some are used to make noise, some are used to strike the dog, but don't take offence, it is not done in such a way to injure it. The decoy/helper has strict rules and must be properly trained to follow them.
Ok, I see. Thanks!
 
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