Why I like smaller dogs.

those little toy terriers have the worst attitudes :x

She is nice yeah, Is that Ice?

I don't want to answer for Peter, but I can say that the standard AB dogs along the lines of leclerc + painter do have a ton of apbt crossed in. They are actually what I would call a larger, thicker game-bred / drivey pit (yes they were game-tested and combat bred, this is why Leclerc and Painter were incarcerated). Great working dogs, and proven so.

This is just my opinion as I don't have knowledge of apbt (or not as much as I'd like to have) but it is to my belief that a standard AB along the lines of painter + leclerc are still a bit hardier, with a harder bite than an apbt of the same size. I am no professional though, but to my knowledge I believe this to be true.

Carrie, do you agree with the small standard AB vs pitbull of same size comment? From my knowledge this is true, but I could be wrong.

but the leclerc and painter lines are also heavily infused with apbt and were also bred specifically for dog fighting, so wouldn't they be genetically very similar to the apbt because of their blood and because of the way they were bred and purposes for being bred?

I sorta saw this coming and knew this conversation would spark some controversy. I am not going to answer that, I don't think many people would, but get to know people who have been in the business of AB's and breeding AB's long enough and you'll see it's common knowledge. Or you can choose to live in the land of make-believe and fairy-tales and think that the standard AB is clean and pure 100% nothing ever mixed in ... Most new people tend to think that their line is pure. I hear new 'Johnson' or 'bully' people who believe that, and new 'standard' folks say the same. hard truth that they were both developed over the yrs and lots of paper-hanging went on...*runs and ducks for cover*

MrsCooper said:

Never mind, sorry for asking. :?

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yeah it's just not a really highly documented thing...i'm just saying that there are those who know and then there are those who believe there was no outcrossing.

I felt like you were looking for some proof by asking, you won't really find much though...there are a lot of papers that show ? or unknown way back in hte ped, or just aren't marked at all, and most people just know that these lines have been heavily infused and line-bred for some time. Sorry if I misunderstood your post.

This type of training does not teach human aggression though. Bullies are naturally protective by nature. This type of training refines their obedience and protective instincts. Any dog can bite a human if so threatened and put into that scenario. But dogs who bite out of fear in a situation where they should not fear, these are the dogs that need to be put down...and with the history of pit bulls, this was done...but it does not mean that they were thus trained "not to bite humans" per say, but what actually happened was the weak-nerved dogs were put down and culled, which theoretically would remove them from the gene pool. There is a difference between a dog with good nerves and courage that knows when to bite and in which situation it should be protective, vs a dog with weak nerves that could bite anyone and is a liability. This sort of training only weeds out the week nerved dogs. I think it's a common misconception about this sort of work.

PitBullRoyalty > I think you overloooked the point of what I was saying. A good dog of any breed with solid nerves is not going to be random or unpredictable. If these police dogs are wacky, then there's something wrong. An unpredictable dog is not a good gaurdian or working dog. You want a dog with strong nerves that's intelligent and knows the difference between threat and friend. If a dog cannot tell the difference, it needs a bullet between the eyes. But like Kismet was saying, an APBT trained in prey is not dangerous and the dog is not being aggressive at all.

Lisa said:

Hey Redbull!! That is an interesting quote. Can you post the link to the other forum so I can see who authored it?

Thanks!!

PS I have heard from a few decoys that not all police dogs are "all that". So I don't doubt the statement. Just wondering where it came from.

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Jose @ Manstoppers over at the Bullyvard. He used to help evaluate actual badged K9s back in California when he was living there.

here's the thread where I read it @

http://www.manstoppers.com/bullyvard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9150&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

I was pretty shocked but I guess it makes sense
It all comes down to their resources.