[ultimatek9]

I finally managed to get some videos of the boys at training. The quality isn't very good, and my husband needs some training as a camera man. But oh well, here they are.

Eros training on a hold and bark with a call-off and a resend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E13CQRmgQFw

Eros training for a carjacking with bite suit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbcpiU7ciGI

Eros training for a carjacking with bite sleeve.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkvap9yzbtE

Eros deploying from the vehicle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbWyU_nyJDY

Jaeger (24wks old) learning bitework.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57ns21fA2oM

 

[ultimatek9]

Re: Carla.

Honestly, I say this with all due respect. Everything was very poor. The bark and hold was bad. Very bad. I am truly sorry. This CANNOT be a schutzhund club. There is no way.
Car jacking.........I have never seen a car jacking done with a presented sleeve. It is done with a hidden and the decoy tries to DESTROY the dog. There is no realism here. This is civil scenario. Realism. I am going to try to post a video in the next few days.

If I may suggest, if you do want to work your own dog without the help of a formal club, please set the bite first on a post. It seems you have skipped some steps. JMO.

I think you really do want to train your dog, which is admirable. So, why would it be so hard to learn from the guys who are very good at it, schutzhund, ring, or psa club. I think you will get a lot of benefit there.

To me, your dogs do not look comfortable, especially on the bark and hold and on the bite, it seems they are always ready to pop off.

I promise. I think you will like the sch or ring club. With all this enthusiasm, it would be a shame to waste your energies.

Good luck.

The guy that we are using (which is the decoy in the videos) has been training dogs for over 25yrs. He has trained countless dogs for police departments, personal protection, and work in schutzhund, psa, and ring. I have talked to plenty of people, including police officers, that are very satisfied with his work. He is also a dual certified guide dog instructor. I am not exactly sure what is being done wrong. I have even sent the videos to my friend that helps train military dogs and he said that they looked great. So I don't know. Ugh!


Also, this was Eros' first session ever training on a car jacking.
The deploying was actually: me "pumping gas" and an attacker came up and grabbed me. Eros then deployed from the vehicle and subdued the threat. My husband was playing with the other video camera and forgot to move this one, I guess. The other camera has some better quality video, but we can't get it to download to our computer.

Peter, please explain what should be different about the hold and bark.
What does

please set the bite first on a post.

mean???

 

[ultimatek9]

I have been training dogs for about the past 10yrs for obedience, agility, tracking, and the such. I have been trying to learn the art of protection training for about the past 6mths on and off (around my work schedule).

PS the fact you do not understand what Peter means by setting the bite on the post shows me how inexperienced not only you are

She doesn't even know what post work is!

I realize I don't know what it means, that is why in my previous post I asked what that meant. But the fact that you would rather further critisize me for not knowing, then actually answering the question, means I still don't know what it means. But you are obviously very proud of yourself because you do.

The videos are grainy and you can not tell at all how the dogs grips are. Even judging the targetting is a bit difficult due to the quality of the video . Was this done on purpose?

I'm pretty sure that I already covered this twice, but let me help you out with it anyway. Instead of critsizing you for not reading. See how it works. Question = Answer
My very first post.

The quality isn't very good, and my husband needs some training as a camera man. But oh well, here they are.

My second post.

My husband was playing with the other video camera and forgot to move this one, I guess. The other camera has some better quality video, but we can't get it to download to our computer.

Next time you video a "car jacking" scenario, have the camera man record it from the passenger side of the vehicle.

Will do.

In that deployment video, why does the camera man not film the dog "subduing the threat"? Again, it seems like you are trying to hide things.

Absolutely, I wanted to give you something else to b-witch about.
I know I already commented about that, oh yes there it was.

The deploying was actually: me "pumping gas" and an attacker came up and grabbed me. Eros then deployed from the vehicle and subdued the threat. My husband was playing with the other video camera and forgot to move this one, I guess. The other camera has some better quality video, but we can't get it to download to our computer.

In the video of Eros's hold and bark, why is he guarding the helper from so far away? He looks like he wants to leave and at one point looked like he started to. Definitely some conflict there, either with you, or with the helper, or maybe even both.

He is far away from the helper at all, but since Eros likes to jumps up the front of the helper and click his teeth in their face. We had to teach him to stay back a little, since they are not supposed to touch the helper during the hold and bark. Also, I have watched the video about 20 times (besides the fact that I was there), and I can't find a spot where he even looked back at me. Other than: the first time he turned around and went off screen, was when I called him off; the second time was when I gave him a leash and verbal correction for mouthing the sleeve.
Maybe you are seeing something that I can't.

i'm sorry, but from reading the posts ultimate k9 has not ever given the impression she is a "first timer" . the only green dog is her bully. pretty sure she has said her other dogs are "advanced" . ultimate k9, please correct me if i am wrong

They are advanced in obedience yes. I never said they were in protection. If they were to that point, I would be looking into competing them.

About the video of your bully, the young one just started. When the dog was showing interest in the sleeve the helper did nothing, when he gave him the bite, he didn't give him the sleeve, why not? Shouldn't the sleeve be given to the dog as a reward? Also the dog doesn't have a good bite, but the helper continues to "play" with the dog, is this why the sleeve wasn't given as a reward?

Because, were trying to get him to alert (by barking) as soon as he barked he got a bite. The first bite was shallow, so we held pressure on him until he lost his grip. Then we started over again. He barks, he got a bite, he bite full mouth, he got the sleeve. When Jim slipped the sleeve back on and was pressing into Jaeger, he was encouraging him to regrip. Once he did, he got the sleeve again.

 

[ultimatek9]

Peter C.

And Carla, post work is the absolute foundation for proper grips. YOU set your grips on the post. All my dogs are on the post. NONE bite shallow and I do not allow it. To me, good post work is like art. Schutzhund generally is very good at this. Hell, I have a post in my basement and all my dogs always go back to the large tugs. When the dogs are stressed, it goes to its foundation. If you have none, the dogs crumble.

Channeling, setting the grips, post work, counter, on and on and on............all these are foundation work. There is alot to be learned from a proper club, Carla. You will not be sorry. Try it.

Okay, I am still not sure. Is post work: hooking the dog to a stationary object, making them come out for the bite, and keeping tension to build their grip?

If not. Please explain it to me.

 

[ultimatek9]

I tried putting the videos on my webpage server. They are a little clearer than the ones on Youtube, but still not that good. I can't figure out the other camera. I downloaded the driver for it, but it still won't let me download anything from it.

Here are the other links if you want to look at them.

www.ultimatek9companions.com/eroscarjacking2.WMV

www.ultimatek9companions.com/eroscarjacking.WMV

www.ultimatek9companions.com/erosholdandbark.WMV

www.ultimatek9companions.com/jaegertraining.WMV

 

[ultimatek9]

Re: alpha.

btw i think K9 answered all your guys questios 2 a T :wink: good for her !

Thanks Steve! :thumbleft:

 

[ultimatek9]

Oh! One thing I forgot to mention. About the "eros carjacking" with decoy wearing the sleeve. The decoy wasn't supposed to be threatening. He was talking calmly and sweet to Eros, and trying to coax him into letting him near the truck. Any dog will alert on someone that is yelling and flailing their arms around. This is to make sure he alerted because I told him to, not because he felt threatened.

Also, I was told when doing a carjacking in competition, the dog wasn't allowed to come out for a bite. They had to wait until the decoys arm entered the threshold of the car. This would make sense in real life to. I don't think you would want your dog grabbing someone outside of your vehicle. I guess this is why the decoy stuck his arm in the car (not to feed Eros a bite). I am very confident that Eros would have leaped out of the car for a bite, had I not been holding his harness.