[PeterC]

have also seen Koa and Matias. Very nice dogs. Koa is nice.

 

[Redbull]

What I meant was that you bred your dogs which haven't achieved high titles yet (something that ppl seem to frown on here, even if it's out of working lines), and I was also asking you if you also practice what you preach on culling? I thought that was clear in my post, maybe not.

When it comes to my opinion though, people are free to post any type of photos they want on their site, but personally I never EVER buy a dog without meeting the sire/dam first and also keeping a close eye on how the pup matures, before I decide to buy it. AND I always make sure I get first pick, so that I can filter through the whole litter and have a better chance at getting what I am looking for. This is the safest way to aquire a pup in my eyes. Internet hype doesn't mean much to me, when it comes to me aquiring a dog, I follow my steps that I listed above and think most people should as well, if they are looking for something in particular from a pup and don't want to be disappointed, whether it's for work or show qualities or any combination inbetween.

 

[Tia]

Pick of the litter to me doesnt make sense the breeder can sell First Pick 10 times over, depending on what each person is looking for.
I think in a whole the WHOLE litter should be consistent in type and temerament so there isnt any that are weaker then the other

 

[Redbull]

I agree, but I still always want to be able to have that top choice. For peace of mind, knowing that I have that option. For example - if 2 dogs show the same drive, same temperments that I am looking for, but I like the conformation of one over the other, or there's some other difference that would steer me more in one direction, then having first pick is good. To me, it's the peace of mind knowing that I can pick before anyone else does. Not many litters are extremely typey and consistent, it would be nice if they were but in reality, they aren't always like that. Especially with AB's, they are such a raw breed. I also don't see how a breeder can sell first pick 10 times in a litter...in my experience, having first pick means the rest of the people can't pick until I make mine...which means there is order in the selection process.

It would be great if all breeders could gaurantee that all their pups will be identical in temperment and type, but that's rarely the case. There is always some degree of difference. Isn't that why people love the AB so much? Because the breed is not a cookie-cutter type?

 

[PeterC]

Redbull, in terms of culling, why do you think I actually test the litter I had. Can I ask you that? What do you think is the purpose of testing? For my amusement?

Second, I would have culled the whole litter if more than 30% of the litter failed the test. Why? It is a crappy breeding and the bitch or sire is throwing crap. This is ESPECIALLY true when there is an outcross out of their lines, which most performance breeders DREAD.

Tell you one thing. If the parents were all good dogs (I don't guess. I KNOW.) and the grandparents were also GREAT, I would think the pups would be good as well. Both sires and dames. BOTH. However, a pup is always a gamble.

With regard to pick of the litter.............what are you choosing the dog for? I may be wrong. LOL. You have to know what you want BEFORE you can even look for it. So, why do you want drive? For what? My guess is that you are choosing the dog for the biggest and the baddest 'looks'.

ABs are not cookie cutter, but if I am paying a grand for a dog, it better be healthy, strong, and stable (good nerves).

So, how do YOU test for nerves? Or do you?

Picks, I don't believe in them, unless the new owner is a trainer and knows precisely what he wants to do with his dog. Most people do not. A responsible breeder should MATCH his pups with the new owners and explain his logic.

 

[Redbull]

I still prefer having first pick, regardless of what you say, it's for my own piece of mind. Of course I would still listen to what the breeder says because he/she is around the pups more than I.

In my past I have not worked dogs, I was looking for a companion.. so I picked them all depending on A) how confident they are (most forward, confident dog in the litter) and then comes B) looks. I hold A higher than B.

And I don't know where you are coming from, but you should know by now that I don't work dogs. Why are you always trying to put words in my mouth? Of course I am interested in joining a club in the future, once I re-settle, but comon, you know very well that I have never been part of a club before and that I have never chosen a dog specifically for working. Why are you being so petty with me? You know that I have no experience, are you doing this to always try to make yourself look better than people? I think so, because it is very obvious that I am a newbie in the world of working dogs. I have never said otherwise.

 

[wrknrott]

Picks, I don't believe in them, unless the new owner is a trainer and knows precisely what he wants to do with his dog. Most people do not. A responsible breeder should MATCH his pups with the new owners and explain his logic.

Yep.... I would expect the breeder to be knowledgeable of his lines/breeding and therefore his/her opinion would hold a great influence with me. I also prefer getting a pup from a repeat breeding!

8)

 

[PeterC]

red bull

dude, you should not open a can of worms because sometimes, you will not be able to close it.

Second, if you say some crap about me, making me look like some BYB hack and questioning my integrity, then I may call YOU on it and ask about YOUR intentions. If you can't step up to the plate, don't even go there, because some people actually will show up. I get pissed only when people question my integrity. At the end of the day, a man ONLY has his character and integrity. You tried to question my character and integrity on a PUBLIC forum. Yep, I get pissed.

And don't act like a victim. You called me out. I answered and then I asked about you and YOUR breeding intentions and YOUR website.

By the way, who the hell cares if anyone is a newbie. If you have been breeding dogs for a hundred years and doing it all wrong, you are stupid and certainly less educated than a newbie. I don't get this newbie stuff. YOu are intelligent or you are not. Simple.

Trust me, I merely point out stuff that is wrong. That does not mean I am better. You say I am trying to make myself better than other people?????? Dude, you don't know me. I cannot help if you feel this way. Maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself.

I will tell you one thing. I am the kind of guy that will be the FIRST to buy you a beer if I saw you in a show. Then, I will say, "come and see. This is what I meant." That is NOT trying to make you feel bad or good. That is simply a statement.

 

[wrknrott]

because it is very obvious that I am a newbie in the world of working dogs. I have never said otherwise.

Generally speaking.... newbie’s don't know enough about selection of pups for any purpose as they have no experiences to base any logical decision. So you must feel that you know at least more than a newbie? No? I certainly would not let a newbie have first pick of anything I bred.

In all honesty you do come across like you know something about something, but I'm just not sure that I have figured what that something is :?

 

[Redbull]

I read alot, do my research and am always learning, but I have never said that I have ever chosen a dog for working with.

I am open to methods though, so feel free to enlighten me people, instead of trying to insult me.

I don't currently own dogs, the dogs I have owned I chose as companions. But I will be working dogs in the near future, once I settle back in like I was saying. Going through a big move atm.

When I speak of learning proper methods to test, I'm not looking for info on bloodlines, etc - I already know what there is to know about that. What I would like to know is professional's opinions on how to test working stock when searching for a potential. Proper screening methods when it comes to pups at various stages.

 

[wrknrott]

Why are you always trying to put words in my mouth?

Evan.... no one is trying to put words in your mouth, there is no room.... your foots in the way half the time! Just half the time... LOL.

 

[Redbull]

Why are you always trying to put words in my mouth?

Evan.... no one is trying to put words in your mouth, there is no room.... your foots in the way half the time! Just half the time... LOL.

Do you ever feel like contributing? Or just insulting?

ps: read my post above instead of coming with some sort of comeback pls. I'm not here to continuously argue with ppl.

 

[wrknrott]

When I speak of learning proper methods to test, I'm not looking for info on bloodlines, etc - I already know what there is to know about that. What I would like to know is professional's opinions on how to test working stock when searching for a potential. Proper screening methods when it comes to pups at various stages.

There is more to just "TESTING" ..... "YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO READ THE RESULTS" And you can not logically do this whithout experience. Reading dogs is not something that you can learn by reading a book!

 

[Redbull]

When I speak of learning proper methods to test, I'm not looking for info on bloodlines, etc - I already know what there is to know about that. What I would like to know is professional's opinions on how to test working stock when searching for a potential. Proper screening methods when it comes to pups at various stages.

There is more to just "TESTING" ..... "YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO READ THE RESULTS" And you can not logically do this whithout experience. Reading dogs is not something that you can learn by reading a book!

And you have experience no? I'd like to learn from people's experience. Is that wrong? I'm confused. Are you saying I have to learn for myself by making mistakes? I'd rather learn from other's mistakes.

When looking for a potential, are you saying I should always consult with a trainer? This is what I am doing here... or do you mean I should have a trainer screen the stock?

 

[bubbabulldog]

Redbull, in terms of culling, why do you think I actually test the litter I had. Can I ask you that? What do you think is the purpose of testing? For my amusement?

Second, I would have culled the whole litter if more than 30% of the litter failed the test. Why? It is a crappy breeding and the b-witch or sire is throwing crap. This is ESPECIALLY true when there is an outcross out of their lines, which most performance breeders DREAD.

Tell you one thing. If the parents were all good dogs (I don't guess. I KNOW.) and the grandparents were also GREAT, I would think the pups would be good as well. Both sires and dames. BOTH. However, a pup is always a gamble.

With regard to pick of the litter.............what are you choosing the dog for? I may be wrong. LOL. You have to know what you want BEFORE you can even look for it. So, why do you want drive? For what? My guess is that you are choosing the dog for the biggest and the baddest 'looks'.

ABs are not cookie cutter, but if I am paying a grand for a dog, it better be healthy, strong, and stable (good nerves).

So, how do YOU test for nerves? Or do you?

Picks, I don't believe in them, unless the new owner is a trainer and knows precisely what he wants to do with his dog. Most people do not. A responsible breeder should MATCH his pups with the new owners and explain his logic.

dude you make some of strangest statements Ive ever heard.... "a responsible breeder should MATCH the dogs to the owners" ?!?! :shock: not to mention your opinions on web sites.... I respect you b/c you obviously love your dogs and AB's in general but dude, seriously, take it easy.

 

[wrknrott]

Why are you always trying to put words in my mouth?

Evan.... no one is trying to put words in your mouth, there is no room.... your foots in the way half the time! Just half the time... LOL.

Do you ever feel like contributing? Or just insulting?

ps: read my post above instead of coming with some sort of comeback pls. I'm not here to continuously argue with ppl.

My point was just that I don't see anyone putting words in your mouth... although you keep claiming they are :?

 

[Redbull]

My point was just that I don't see anyone putting words in your mouth... although you keep claiming they are :?

Well, this is what I mean. Peter was asking me how I test for nerves, etc etc.

I never stated that I have tested working stock. So in my opinion we are talking about 2 different things and thus it sounds like he's putting words in my mouth. I spoke about chosing and screening companions dogs in the past. But I never claimed to know what it means to test/screen working stock. His questions to me were condescending and off-topic from what I was talking about, thus yes - he was twisting my convo... do you understand now?

 

[wrknrott]

dude you make some of strangest statements Ive ever heard.... "a responsible breeder should MATCH the dogs to the owners" ?!?! :shock:

Whats strange about that... it is done all the time!

8)

 

[Redbull]

dude you make some of strangest statements Ive ever heard.... "a responsible breeder should MATCH the dogs to the owners" ?!?! :shock:

Whats strange about that... it is done all the time!

8)

This is true, when I was going to get a dog from Wayne @ Patriot Bulldogs (his stud is PSA and FR titled and is continuously being worked) he was going to sort me out with the proper pick.

I think if the breeder does not have the proper experience, then you sort of have to intervene, if you want to take that risk going with non-working breeders when looking for working stock, it is a risk though.

 

[yungster]

Do you all need some judges for this penis-measuring contest? I can nominate a few.